Post by Marcus Langley on Jan 9, 2012 6:17:59 GMT -5
[Sun 08] [20:12:51] <KarioAfK> For the record, I'll likely be only sporadically present for the indeterminate portion of today, but if someone hasn't already set up the third (or fourth, I'm not sure which it is) mailing list by the time I'm done with dinner tonight, I'm making sure it gets done.
[Sun 08] [20:28:35] <Eskay> Mailing lists?
[Sun 08] [20:31:41] <KarioAfK> I know of at least one that still needs to get set up to facilitate forward progress.
[Sun 08] [20:32:49] * Burrito_Loco mails your list
[Sun 08] [20:43:01] <Tod> hi!
[Sun 08] [21:02:14] <KarioAfK> Oh, hey, that was easier than I thought. Derp.
[Sun 08] [21:03:51] <Kuviare> Would you like some herp with your derp?
[Sun 08] [21:06:35] * KarioAfK is now known as Kario
[Sun 08] [21:06:52] <Burrito_Loco> Nah
[Sun 08] [21:07:00] <Burrito_Loco> I'm watching my weight
[Sun 08] [21:07:17] <Kario> I *would* like one of the in-charge people who is not me to admin today's meeting, as I am currently involved in trying to de-perfume a couple of toiletry kits while I scrub the guest bathroom.
[Sun 08] [21:07:48] <Eskay> That sounds like an adventure.
[Sun 08] [21:08:23] <Kuviare> A very scented adventure.
[Sun 08] [21:10:05] <Kario> Oh, it's a laugh a minute.
[Sun 08] [21:13:23] <Kario> I see no discussion happening. Let's prompt things. Character art go.
[Sun 08] [21:14:18] <Tod> I'm plugging away on character art. Got pretty busy during the holidays and with some deadlines, but have a stack of sketches that I am inking, and just... keep on working on it
[Sun 08] [21:14:22] <Tod> I have two colored in, to share
[Sun 08] [21:14:50] <Tod> www.thestorydragon.com/adventure/characters/color/fmouse02.jpg
[Sun 08] [21:15:03] <Tod> www.thestorydragon.com/adventure/characters/color/fcat02.jpg
[Sun 08] [21:17:24] <Kario> I'm guessing these are our trade republic representatives?
[Sun 08] [21:17:52] <Tod> I would have to look at my notes on the cat, but yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:18:38] * Tod checks. Yes XD
[Sun 08] [21:18:50] <Kuviare> Tucked pants are a definite victory
[Sun 08] [21:19:16] <Tod> and, once I have a color version, those can be tweaked digitally to make color-variants. And, I have hi-res files saved of all the uncolored lineart.
[Sun 08] [21:20:24] <Kario> That sounds good.
[Sun 08] [21:20:28] <Kario> I especially like the mouse here.
[Sun 08] [21:20:49] <Tod> thank you :D
[Sun 08] [21:21:38] <Tod> and, I've been having some good luck implimenting changes to how I work and make my schedule, and I anticipate no problems keeping up with the critters.
[Sun 08] [21:22:41] <Tod> not that I was worried, previously.
[Sun 08] [21:23:04] <Kario> Good to hear in any event.
[Sun 08] [21:23:13] * Kario kicks the rest of the team to speak up.
[Sun 08] [21:24:26] <Kuviare> I-I'm not part of the team am I?
[Sun 08] [21:25:53] <TommyChong> less rosey over here
[Sun 08] [21:26:18] <Kario> Less rosy in what sense?
[Sun 08] [21:27:07] <TommyChong> I didnt have time for paintings anymore?
[Sun 08] [21:30:38] <Kario> I'm not sure that's a problem unless you think it's going to stay that way for a long time.
[Sun 08] [21:31:29] <TommyChong> it is. :(
[Sun 08] [21:31:59] <Kario> Mm. How long a time are we talking?
[Sun 08] [21:33:32] <TommyChong> Not sure. Another month of animating ahead of me and I don't know what comes next...
[Sun 08] [21:33:49] <TommyChong> though if you need pencil sketches of things
[Sun 08] [21:33:58] <TommyChong> I think I can manage a few.
[Sun 08] [21:34:21] <Kario> Okay. We're still working in 'concepts' so far, so pencil sketches will be totally fine for this stage.
[Sun 08] [21:34:37] <TommyChong> alright
[Sun 08] [21:35:03] <TommyChong> what would you want, then
[Sun 08] [21:35:45] <Burrito_Loco> What am I talking about?
[Sun 08] [21:35:56] <Kario> I'm going to get back to you on that a little later today.
[Sun 08] [21:36:08] <Kario> I need to go through the forums and remember where we were on everything.
[Sun 08] [21:36:11] <Burrito_Loco> I've not been doing...anything for a month or so, not just this project, but like...anything.
[Sun 08] [21:36:16] <Burrito_Loco> >.>
[Sun 08] [21:36:17] <Burrito_Loco> <.<
[Sun 08] [21:36:24] <Burrito_Loco> I've been reading a Scala book I guess
[Sun 08] [21:36:48] <Kario> (At first I read that as Scalia.)
[Sun 08] [21:40:29] <Kario> This windmill-y place intrigues me. What would things look like from the inside?
[Sun 08] [21:41:43] <TommyChong> you mean the one I posted?
[Sun 08] [21:42:30] <Kario> Yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:45:28] <TommyChong> actually I forgot. tunnels I guess, and a factory for V/STOL planes
[Sun 08] [21:46:42] <TommyChong> most surfaces are for windfarm and crops
[Sun 08] [21:47:16] <Kario> Okay. Do you think you could do a sketch of an underground city *in* a spire, then? There are a lot of directions we could build off of that.
[Sun 08] [21:47:34] <TommyChong> rigth
[Sun 08] [21:48:38] <Kario> Something analogous to the skyland interface screen that Skyrates players got, where you could hit up various points in the city to take care of business.
[Sun 08] [21:48:51] <Burrito_Loco> Bloody
[Sun 08] [21:48:59] <Burrito_Loco> I still haven't written up my bit...
[Sun 08] [21:49:00] <Burrito_Loco> Man
[Sun 08] [21:49:03] <Burrito_Loco> this is getting silly
[Sun 08] [21:49:30] <TommyChong> oh, so some interface too
[Sun 08] [21:49:32] <TommyChong> ?
[Sun 08] [21:51:05] <Kario> Well, the way I see it (other people here should speak up with their thoughts too) you'd have multiple views of each individual location. One that gives you a good overall picture of the place, one central UI screen much like the skyland screen, and possibly others as necessary.
[Sun 08] [21:51:20] <Kario> And the 'skyland' screen would be a good chance to get a cross-section of the city.
[Sun 08] [21:51:57] <Tod> I think that would be cool
[Sun 08] [21:52:51] <TommyChong> sounds good
[Sun 08] [21:54:25] <TommyChong> though I imagined at first it would be a bit more skyrate-y
[Sun 08] [21:55:46] <TommyChong> trade/hangar would look the same at various location (maybe just 2-3 variations of it), just with different npcs showing up.
[Sun 08] [21:56:20] <Kario> I think we can use templates for the building locations, yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:56:44] <TommyChong> and the skyland screen with different views of that location
[Sun 08] [21:56:53] <Kario> I do like the idea of swapping out a couple of NPCs if possible just to not make it so... cut-and-paste.
[Sun 08] [21:56:57] <TommyChong> you know, changes everytime you land there
[Sun 08] [21:58:00] <TommyChong> that's about it though, from me.
[Sun 08] [21:59:09] <TommyChong> (or do we need that for first release?)
[Sun 08] [21:59:51] <Kario> Going on a slight tangent here, one of the things that always struck me as weird about Skyrates was the scale of things. There weren't too many buildings and there wasn't evidence of large cities on most of the skylands, so it was really unclear what populations looked like or where people lived.
[Sun 08] [21:59:58] <Kario> I'd prefer not to leave similar questions in the minds of our players.
[Sun 08] [22:00:42] <Tod> that threw me off, too.
[Sun 08] [22:01:01] <TommyChong> ha
[Sun 08] [22:01:07] <Tod> though the same graphic being reused on multiple islands would throw me off as well
[Sun 08] [22:01:23] <Kario> (I need to run out and do lunch, so someone else spell me for a bit. I know you guys are watching, and you *know* it if I mean you.)
[Sun 08] [22:01:48] <Kario> (My question for the day, if you run out of things to talk about, is how to properly credit people for their intellectual contributions.)
[Sun 08] [22:02:20] <Kuviare> Mmm
[Sun 08] [22:04:33] <TommyChong> have a npc version of them appear in the game. <.<
[Sun 08] [22:05:14] <Kuviare> ^ this so hard
[Sun 08] [22:06:22] <Austin_J> I was thinking that we might name spires after them.
[Sun 08] [22:08:35] <TommyChong> oh, example please?
[Sun 08] [22:09:06] <Marcus`Langley> Kario; IIRC the scale thing was always handwaved as abstractions, but I agree it always seemed odd.
[Sun 08] [22:09:08] <Kuviare> Well the issue with that is picking who gets what, and how do you acknowledge someone who contributed much less than others? Or much more? Do we go around and ask each one what they want?
[Sun 08] [22:10:55] <TommyChong> mmm
[Sun 08] [22:18:31] <Kuviare> Also I think there should be the standard crediting page, just with a list of contributors and perhaps links to their pages or contact info.
[Sun 08] [22:21:30] <Tod> I wouldn't personally ask for any more than that and consideration when/if the project starts making money
[Sun 08] [22:22:22] <Kuviare> Ah, that may be the real crux of things. Monetary compensation.
[Sun 08] [22:23:50] <TommyChong> how do I split loots?
[Sun 08] [22:23:54] <TommyChong> etc
[Sun 08] [22:24:01] <Kuviare> Yeah
[Sun 08] [22:27:09] <Kario> My specific question regarding attribution is that one of my authorial submissions gave me a great idea for one of our three faction names.
[Sun 08] [22:28:11] <Kuviare> Oh, do go on.
[Sun 08] [22:28:39] <Kario> Speaking of which, I think we can give them better unofficial placeholder names.
[Sun 08] [22:29:10] <Kuviare> Oooh, this I'm very eager to hear. I haven't found something to write about yet.
[Sun 08] [22:29:31] <Kario> There seems to be near-unanimous agreement that !Green is a republic and that !Blue is a federation.
[Sun 08] [22:30:41] <Kario> I guess the best term for !Red is a collective of some kind.
[Sun 08] [22:31:31] <Kario> Referring to the three factions as such will probably help minimize unintentional Skyrates carryoevers.
[Sun 08] [22:31:35] <Kario> *carry-overs
[Sun 08] [22:31:46] * Talon comes ALIVE
[Sun 08] [22:32:20] <Kuviare> Makes sense...
[Sun 08] [22:33:28] <Tod> awesome
[Sun 08] [22:33:36] <Kario> Although Eskay's idea just amuses the heck out of me and is admittedly easier to type.
[Sun 08] [22:33:40] * Burrito_Loco beats it back to death
[Sun 08] [22:33:57] <Talon> ugh
[Sun 08] [22:34:00] <Talon> republic is a direct carryover, though
[Sun 08] [22:34:08] <Talon> in other notes
[Sun 08] [22:34:21] <Talon> i think monetary consideration is something we can talk about...well, whenever
[Sun 08] [22:34:22] <Talon> but
[Sun 08] [22:34:38] <Talon> i plan on handling (paying for) all server and hosting costs
[Sun 08] [22:34:41] <Talon> and if/when we start making money
[Sun 08] [22:35:10] <Marcus`Langley> well a certain amount of faction name overlap is probably unavoidable. trying to come up with other words for the sake of not using one particular faction type just gets silly after a while.
[Sun 08] [22:35:48] <Kario> It does differ somewhat from a traditional republic in that it's House of Lords and House of LORDS.
[Sun 08] [22:35:50] <Talon> i think it's fairly logical to break it up depending on commitment and contributions
[Sun 08] [22:35:51] <Kuviare> Agreed
[Sun 08] [22:36:42] <Tod> I have to afk for a few but will be back asap
[Sun 08] [22:36:54] <Kario> Ugh. On that note, I should really e-mail Thorne and set up a discussion with him, then, since he hasn't been around for me to ask otherwise.
[Sun 08] [22:37:38] <Kario> *hasn't been around lately
[Sun 08] [22:40:08] <Kario> I want to know where he got his names and whether he'd be willing to revise his submission with editorial input or if he's just done.
[Sun 08] [22:41:11] <Kario> I largely suspect he's just done, but *censored for political reasons*
[Sun 08] [22:43:34] <Kario> Anyway.
[Sun 08] [22:43:34] <Kuviare> Oh my
[Sun 08] [22:43:52] <Kario> On that note, I still have very little input on most of my assignments.
[Sun 08] [22:43:55] <Kario> People should fix that.
[Sun 08] [22:44:17] <Talon> hmm
[Sun 08] [22:44:17] <Talon> yes
[Sun 08] [22:44:18] <Talon> probably
[Sun 08] [22:44:29] <Talon> and then aside from that
[Sun 08] [22:44:36] <Talon> i think it'll be a fairly even split
[Sun 08] [22:44:40] <Talon> 50/50 coders/artists
[Sun 08] [22:44:46] <Talon> and chump change to the writers ;)
[Sun 08] [22:44:48] <Talon> i kid
[Sun 08] [22:45:00] <Talon> probably something like 30/30/30/10 or something
[Sun 08] [22:45:09] <Talon> 10 being administrative overhead/payment for expansion of server/etc
[Sun 08] [22:45:23] <Talon> but that can be solidified into a contract if we ever get to that point
[Sun 08] [22:45:28] <Talon> which is unlikely
[Sun 08] [22:45:40] <Kario> Yeah. Getting a game out goes before we ever start worrying about monetary distribution.
[Sun 08] [22:46:16] <Talon> i think right now we have to focus on-right
[Sun 08] [22:46:25] <Kuviare> Agreed indeed. As for writing, I can have a look at things but... life's going to get busy
[Sun 08] [22:46:27] <Talon> we should turn some of the character art into digital art that meshes with the UI/UX
[Sun 08] [22:46:40] <Talon> and we should have some elements of the UI imported into the client
[Sun 08] [22:46:46] <Talon> and we should have the client be testable
[Sun 08] [22:46:48] * Talon pings matejcik
[Sun 08] [22:46:58] <matejcik> oh, hey talon
[Sun 08] [22:47:02] <matejcik> nice text wall you got there
[Sun 08] [22:47:08] <TommyChong> I can help with that
[Sun 08] [22:47:22] <TommyChong> not the text wall
[Sun 08] [22:48:01] <matejcik> so, yeah.
[Sun 08] [22:48:08] <matejcik> client. testable. monies. ux. got it all.
[Sun 08] [22:48:19] <matejcik> BL wisely ping-outed...
[Sun 08] [22:50:18] <Kario> Technically, minimal world-building is necessary to get a testable client, provided that all the variables are clearly labeled.
[Sun 08] [22:51:53] <Eskay> Discussing how to distribute the huge piles of money you're planning to make?
[Sun 08] [22:52:21] <Eskay> Considering Skyrates afaik never made any, that shouldn't be a problem for a good while yet.
[Sun 08] [22:53:38] <Talon> lol
[Sun 08] [22:53:43] <Talon> right, what eskay said
[Sun 08] [22:53:51] <Talon> client/testable, how close are we looking?
[Sun 08] [22:54:00] <matejcik> remember katie's client, there was no worldbuilding ;e)
[Sun 08] [22:54:03] <Talon> :P
[Sun 08] [22:54:06] <matejcik> well, some code is there
[Sun 08] [22:54:18] <matejcik> i clearly remember offering it up for testing
[Sun 08] [22:54:28] <matejcik> i don't remember in what state it was though
[Sun 08] [22:54:44] <matejcik> and i'll be honest in that i haven't touched it for the last six or so weeks at least
[Sun 08] [22:55:21] <Eskay> I vaguely remembering looking at some version of the code and deciding it looked complicated to set up.
[Sun 08] [22:55:35] <Talon> hmmm\
[Sun 08] [22:55:36] <matejcik> well, yes.
[Sun 08] [22:55:41] <Talon> we shouldn't just play with katie's right?
[Sun 08] [22:55:43] <matejcik> talon was tasked with learning how to set it up.
[Sun 08] [22:56:12] <matejcik> and deploy it on jetty. that i remember very clearly :ep
[Sun 08] [22:56:18] <Talon> :P
[Sun 08] [22:56:29] <Talon> sorry, time constraints :(
[Sun 08] [22:56:33] * Talon looks over the codelet.
[Sun 08] [23:00:37] <Tod> I'm back again. Sorry about that.
[Sun 08] [23:05:10] <Talon> np
[Sun 08] [23:05:11] <Talon> so
[Sun 08] [23:05:21] <Talon> we should set up pipelines for the product, essentiall
[Sun 08] [23:05:32] <Talon> get the character art digitized and into the style of the UI that we'll have
[Sun 08] [23:05:59] <Tod> by 'digitized' do you mean computer colored, or scanned and in a proper file format?
[Sun 08] [23:06:32] <Talon> i think mostly it needs to match into the UI
[Sun 08] [23:06:34] <Talon> or rather
[Sun 08] [23:06:35] <Talon> actualyl
[Sun 08] [23:06:37] <Talon> for that matter
[Sun 08] [23:06:37] <Talon> right now
[Sun 08] [23:06:38] <Tod> I am not sure what that means.
[Sun 08] [23:06:44] <Talon> we just need to integrate asssets into the game client itself
[Sun 08] [23:07:05] <Talon> and then create more client stuff, as well
[Sun 08] [23:07:25] <Tod> well, let me know what you need from me - I have b&w lineart png files, and am planning on hand coloring the characters. I am not so good at digital coloring.
[Sun 08] [23:07:55] <Talon> TommyChong?
[Sun 08] [23:08:03] <TommyChong> yes?
[Sun 08] [23:08:13] <Kario> (New assignment posted, with another one coming later today as well.)
[Sun 08] [23:08:29] <Kuviare> ( Huzzah, will get on that )
[Sun 08] [23:09:55] <Tod> though maybe watercolor characters would look good? :D?
[Sun 08] [23:09:59] <matejcik> yes, well, we need someone to do the integration
[Sun 08] [23:10:41] <TommyChong> no harm in trying
[Sun 08] [23:11:33] <matejcik> actually
[Sun 08] [23:11:39] <matejcik> what Talon said is not entirely correct
[Sun 08] [23:11:53] <matejcik> we need someone to create the UI itself first
[Sun 08] [23:11:58] <TommyChong> I'll try to put together a ui-ish screen with character
[Sun 08] [23:11:59] <matejcik> then we can integrate art into it
[Sun 08] [23:12:33] <TommyChong> mmm
[Sun 08] [23:12:48] <matejcik> great.. Tommy, in what format do you output your work? image file?
[Sun 08] [23:13:06] <matejcik> because if yes, we need someone else to turn it into a html5 page ;e)
[Sun 08] [23:14:05] <TommyChong> I work with image files, yes
[Sun 08] [23:14:37] <TommyChong> Use flash for vectors and whatnot
[Sun 08] [23:19:57] <TommyChong> do we have that someone else?
[Sun 08] [23:20:02] <TommyChong> just wondering.
[Sun 08] [23:20:15] <matejcik> 'fraid not
[Sun 08] [23:20:49] <Eskay> I can sometimes do something with HTML. No promises.
[Sun 08] [23:21:52] <TommyChong> I code better than a lint roller. Close competition too.
[Sun 08] [23:28:46] <Kuviare> Beats me out
[Sun 08] [23:29:36] <sohum> Lint rollers are actually really good at coding. I don't want to generalise, but it's something about their stick-to-it-iveness, I think
[Sun 08] [23:29:50] <Kuviare> Hehehe
[Sun 08] [23:30:00] <TommyChong> :D
[Sun 08] [23:30:10] <matejcik> well if the worse comes to worst, i -could- do it. but i'm not particularly keen on it, and i believe that my skills are better used elsewhere
[Sun 08] [23:30:27] <matejcik> and the same thing can probably be said about Tommy, so there.
[Sun 08] [23:30:54] <matejcik> how come we don't have a html coder on the team? are there none in the SR community?
[Sun 08] [23:32:35] <matejcik> or is the coding such a chore that nobody wants to do it? [smirk]
[Sun 08] [23:35:31] * Tod doesn't know how to do any of that stuff, sadly.
[Sun 08] [23:36:04] <Tod> My site-design training ended with sweet web 1.0 frames and stuff ;P
[Sun 08] [23:39:22] <matejcik> btw, off topic but still. did you folks know that despite all their evilness, frames are still the best choice for blind users? because the navigation doesn't get in the way and the screen reader doesn't repeat it on every page load
[Sun 08] [23:40:17] * matejcik is an useless-trivia spewing device
[Sun 08] [23:41:26] <Tod> maybe we could make an accessable/text-based version at some point
[Sun 08] [23:43:29] <Eskay> I think that's more of a sign of the uselessness of current web technologies to blind users
[Sun 08] [23:43:35] <Eskay> than of any inherent utility of frames.
[Sun 08] [23:43:54] <sohum> what was the problem with frames, anyway?
[Sun 08] [23:44:21] <sohum> bookmarkability?
[Sun 08] [23:44:57] <Eskay> They mess with browsers' ability to tell where they are.
[Sun 08] [23:45:02] <Eskay> Where they've been, etc.
[Sun 08] [23:45:56] <sohum> right. seems like it should be possible to assign a name to <collection of pages rendered in this way> and still keep the semantic content of <these things are unchanging>
[Sun 08] [23:46:42] <Eskay> You could invent a standard.
[Sun 08] [23:46:50] <matejcik> html5 does have a <navigation> element or some such. step one, everyone start using it, step two, readers use it for profit
[Sun 08] [23:46:59] <sohum> mmm.
[Sun 08] [23:47:01] <sohum> excellent
[Sun 08] [23:47:10] <sohum> if the standard exists, I consider the problem solved
[Sun 08] [23:52:23] <Eskay> Like Wave?
[Sun 08] [23:52:33] <Eskay> Or does that not apply to problems in general?
[Sun 08] [23:53:16] <sohum> heheheheheh
[Sun 08] [23:56:24] <Eskay> Do people have opinions on my money idea I posted?
[Sun 08] [23:58:41] <matejcik> you mean that idea where we don't make any?
[Sun 08] [23:58:55] <Kuviare> XD
[Mon 09] [00:02:23] <Eskay> No, the idea for the in-game money.
[Mon 09] [00:02:43] <Eskay> I mean this one: fauxrates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=suggestions&action=display&thread=44&page=1
[Mon 09] [00:02:53] <Eskay> The gist is to give each of the nations their own currency.
[Mon 09] [00:04:19] <Kuviare> Ah, I liked the idea very much! The only issue is coming up with three currencies.
[Mon 09] [00:04:29] <Tod> I think that's cool. Will the exchange rates change?
[Mon 09] [00:04:55] <Eskay> I don't know yet. I don't know what effect that would have on gameplay.
[Mon 09] [00:05:06] <Eskay> So far I've only worked it out in my head for fixed rates.
[Mon 09] [00:06:08] <Talon> html?
[Mon 09] [00:06:15] <Talon> css5! html5!
[Mon 09] [00:06:16] <Talon> frames!
[Mon 09] [00:06:18] <Talon> lol, frames
[Mon 09] [00:06:54] <Talon> also
[Mon 09] [00:06:55] <Talon> hmm
[Mon 09] [00:07:09] <Talon> i like that idea a lot, eskay
[Mon 09] [00:07:18] <Kario> Fixed-rates seem like the best idea.
[Mon 09] [00:07:39] <Talon> iiiiii
[Mon 09] [00:07:45] <Tod> if the rates changed, that could add a fun element
[Mon 09] [00:07:47] <Talon> agree with that
[Mon 09] [00:07:48] <Kario> There should be a minor but distinct advantage to trading at home, thus there is a distinct but minor advantage to controlling places.
[Mon 09] [00:07:50] <Tod> something else to keep track of
[Mon 09] [00:07:51] <Talon> but we can fiddle with exchange rates
[Mon 09] [00:07:54] <Talon> especially at high levels
[Mon 09] [00:08:18] <Eskay> As part of designing three nations, we should design three currencies.
[Mon 09] [00:08:29] <Eskay> The #$, the %$, and the &$.
[Mon 09] [00:08:33] <Kario> More to the point, the fee should be the same for both ctions.
[Mon 09] [00:08:37] <Kario> *both directions
[Mon 09] [00:08:51] <Talon> oh, well, yes
[Mon 09] [00:09:08] <Talon> it should be small but not existent, the fee will be standardized and the same, and
[Mon 09] [00:09:19] <Talon> we should have some fun signs
[Mon 09] [00:09:22] <Talon> i.e. g-squigglies
[Mon 09] [00:10:19] <Kuviare> And interrobangs
[Mon 09] [00:10:40] <Talon> sure
[Mon 09] [00:10:45] <Talon> tohugh i think this is slightly off topica
[Mon 09] [00:10:46] <Talon> *topic
[Mon 09] [00:10:55] <Eskay> For development's sake we should keep the currencies typeable.
[Mon 09] [00:10:56] <Talon> TommyChong, can you integrate what tod's doing with characters into your UI?
[Mon 09] [00:11:04] <Talon> gsquig isn't quite typable :P
[Mon 09] [00:11:12] <Talon> er, i mean, easily
[Mon 09] [00:11:19] <Talon> i'm sure there's a unicode char for g-cedila
[Mon 09] [00:11:49] <Kario> Collective-currency will be interesting.
[Mon 09] [00:12:05] <TommyChong> sure. I may try recolor some if I have time
[Mon 09] [00:12:18] <Kario> What do you integrate when you're a society that spent its entire early history delivering goods on a purely need-based system?
[Mon 09] [00:13:20] <Eskay> Cell phone minutes?
[Mon 09] [00:14:42] * sohum winces
[Mon 09] [00:14:48] <sohum> that's... actually really interesting
[Mon 09] [00:15:17] <sohum> cell phone minutes as communication-turned-currency... shades of whuffie, but more direct, more something
[Mon 09] [00:15:41] <Eskay> It is an example taken from real life -- they are the de facto currency in regions of Africa.
[Mon 09] [00:15:42] <sohum> not particularly in the fauxrates theme, but fascinating all the same
[Mon 09] [00:15:48] <sohum> wait, really?
[Mon 09] [00:15:59] <Eskay> yes.
[Mon 09] [00:16:09] <sohum> that is ... okay, that is really really neat
[Mon 09] [00:18:07] <Talon> TommyChong: kay. i think a nice mockup of an actual game screen with tod's characters would be a good first step
[Mon 09] [00:18:12] <Talon> (profile page, i suppose?)
[Mon 09] [00:18:32] <TommyChong> ?
[Mon 09] [00:18:44] <Talon> w/ regards to your sure earlier
[Mon 09] [00:18:49] <Talon> just sort of continuing that
[Mon 09] [00:18:50] <Talon> line of thought
[Mon 09] [00:19:24] <TommyChong> let see
[Mon 09] [00:20:13] <Talon> currency needs to have real (or assumed) value, needs to be portable, and can't expire
[Mon 09] [00:20:24] <Talon> i.e. no fruit, which rots
[Mon 09] [00:21:01] <sohum> should be fungible, which probably rules out things like gemstones
[Mon 09] [00:35:00] <Eskay> Well, semiprecious stones shouldn't be any worse at that than precious metals, should they?
[Mon 09] [00:43:00] <Tod> semiprecious stones with a specific cut, maybe?
[Mon 09] [00:50:12] <Austin_J> Rupees!
[Mon 09] [00:51:02] <Austin_J> I mean, we can't use that name without getting sued by Nintendo, but it's the same basic idea.
[Mon 09] [00:51:40] <Talon> lol
[Mon 09] [00:51:44] <Talon> hmm
[Mon 09] [00:51:49] <Talon> if they each adopted a different gemstone?
[Mon 09] [00:51:52] <Talon> no, that's not different enough
[Mon 09] [00:51:57] <Talon> i think it'd be intersesting if say
[Mon 09] [00:51:59] <Talon> fuel or alcohol
[Mon 09] [00:52:11] <Talon> were considered a currency
[Mon 09] [00:55:44] <Kario> I've toyed with the idea of fuel as a baseline item.
[Mon 09] [00:56:08] <Kuviare> That would be neat... especially because then you /need/ money to fly
[Mon 09] [00:56:25] <Eskay> Very SR2.3.
[Mon 09] [00:56:57] <Eskay> Needing money to fly, I mean.
[Mon 09] [01:01:54] <Kario> If only one faction uses barrels of fuel as a standard currency unit, I think it should be the collective.
[Mon 09] [01:02:10] <Kario> Alternatively, I posit that all nations could perhaps use barrels of fuel as a standard currency.
[Mon 09] [01:02:59] <Eskay> Makes it a right pain to go buy a loaf of bread.
[Mon 09] [01:03:01] <Austin_J> I assume aircraft wouldn't have a maximum range, then? It's just a matter of "can I afford to burn that much of my cash to get there"?
[Mon 09] [01:03:41] <Tod> the currency itself could be shares of barrels of oil
[Mon 09] [01:03:52] <Kario> I think range would still be something to consider.
[Mon 09] [01:04:01] <Kario> It's the simplest way of balancing access.
[Mon 09] [01:04:38] <Kario> Mind you, we may not need to, but either way it's something of a tertiary step.
[Mon 09] [01:06:37] <Eskay> I think we mustn't make fuel only one faction's currency. That would give starting players a very dramatically different experience in that faction from others.
[Mon 09] [01:07:57] <Kario> I can accept this stance.
[Mon 09] [01:08:10] <sohum> unless we can come up with something equally different for the others. fuel, bullets, and...
[Mon 09] [01:20:26] <Talon> lol
[Mon 09] [01:20:27] <Talon> food
[Mon 09] [01:20:31] <Talon> but it doesn't quite work
[Mon 09] [01:22:17] <Mahmoth> Then you're just going into bartering...
[Mon 09] [03:27:26] <Talon> so i figure that's the end of the meeting :P
[Sun 08] [20:28:35] <Eskay> Mailing lists?
[Sun 08] [20:31:41] <KarioAfK> I know of at least one that still needs to get set up to facilitate forward progress.
[Sun 08] [20:32:49] * Burrito_Loco mails your list
[Sun 08] [20:43:01] <Tod> hi!
[Sun 08] [21:02:14] <KarioAfK> Oh, hey, that was easier than I thought. Derp.
[Sun 08] [21:03:51] <Kuviare> Would you like some herp with your derp?
[Sun 08] [21:06:35] * KarioAfK is now known as Kario
[Sun 08] [21:06:52] <Burrito_Loco> Nah
[Sun 08] [21:07:00] <Burrito_Loco> I'm watching my weight
[Sun 08] [21:07:17] <Kario> I *would* like one of the in-charge people who is not me to admin today's meeting, as I am currently involved in trying to de-perfume a couple of toiletry kits while I scrub the guest bathroom.
[Sun 08] [21:07:48] <Eskay> That sounds like an adventure.
[Sun 08] [21:08:23] <Kuviare> A very scented adventure.
[Sun 08] [21:10:05] <Kario> Oh, it's a laugh a minute.
[Sun 08] [21:13:23] <Kario> I see no discussion happening. Let's prompt things. Character art go.
[Sun 08] [21:14:18] <Tod> I'm plugging away on character art. Got pretty busy during the holidays and with some deadlines, but have a stack of sketches that I am inking, and just... keep on working on it
[Sun 08] [21:14:22] <Tod> I have two colored in, to share
[Sun 08] [21:14:50] <Tod> www.thestorydragon.com/adventure/characters/color/fmouse02.jpg
[Sun 08] [21:15:03] <Tod> www.thestorydragon.com/adventure/characters/color/fcat02.jpg
[Sun 08] [21:17:24] <Kario> I'm guessing these are our trade republic representatives?
[Sun 08] [21:17:52] <Tod> I would have to look at my notes on the cat, but yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:18:38] * Tod checks. Yes XD
[Sun 08] [21:18:50] <Kuviare> Tucked pants are a definite victory
[Sun 08] [21:19:16] <Tod> and, once I have a color version, those can be tweaked digitally to make color-variants. And, I have hi-res files saved of all the uncolored lineart.
[Sun 08] [21:20:24] <Kario> That sounds good.
[Sun 08] [21:20:28] <Kario> I especially like the mouse here.
[Sun 08] [21:20:49] <Tod> thank you :D
[Sun 08] [21:21:38] <Tod> and, I've been having some good luck implimenting changes to how I work and make my schedule, and I anticipate no problems keeping up with the critters.
[Sun 08] [21:22:41] <Tod> not that I was worried, previously.
[Sun 08] [21:23:04] <Kario> Good to hear in any event.
[Sun 08] [21:23:13] * Kario kicks the rest of the team to speak up.
[Sun 08] [21:24:26] <Kuviare> I-I'm not part of the team am I?
[Sun 08] [21:25:53] <TommyChong> less rosey over here
[Sun 08] [21:26:18] <Kario> Less rosy in what sense?
[Sun 08] [21:27:07] <TommyChong> I didnt have time for paintings anymore?
[Sun 08] [21:30:38] <Kario> I'm not sure that's a problem unless you think it's going to stay that way for a long time.
[Sun 08] [21:31:29] <TommyChong> it is. :(
[Sun 08] [21:31:59] <Kario> Mm. How long a time are we talking?
[Sun 08] [21:33:32] <TommyChong> Not sure. Another month of animating ahead of me and I don't know what comes next...
[Sun 08] [21:33:49] <TommyChong> though if you need pencil sketches of things
[Sun 08] [21:33:58] <TommyChong> I think I can manage a few.
[Sun 08] [21:34:21] <Kario> Okay. We're still working in 'concepts' so far, so pencil sketches will be totally fine for this stage.
[Sun 08] [21:34:37] <TommyChong> alright
[Sun 08] [21:35:03] <TommyChong> what would you want, then
[Sun 08] [21:35:45] <Burrito_Loco> What am I talking about?
[Sun 08] [21:35:56] <Kario> I'm going to get back to you on that a little later today.
[Sun 08] [21:36:08] <Kario> I need to go through the forums and remember where we were on everything.
[Sun 08] [21:36:11] <Burrito_Loco> I've not been doing...anything for a month or so, not just this project, but like...anything.
[Sun 08] [21:36:16] <Burrito_Loco> >.>
[Sun 08] [21:36:17] <Burrito_Loco> <.<
[Sun 08] [21:36:24] <Burrito_Loco> I've been reading a Scala book I guess
[Sun 08] [21:36:48] <Kario> (At first I read that as Scalia.)
[Sun 08] [21:40:29] <Kario> This windmill-y place intrigues me. What would things look like from the inside?
[Sun 08] [21:41:43] <TommyChong> you mean the one I posted?
[Sun 08] [21:42:30] <Kario> Yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:45:28] <TommyChong> actually I forgot. tunnels I guess, and a factory for V/STOL planes
[Sun 08] [21:46:42] <TommyChong> most surfaces are for windfarm and crops
[Sun 08] [21:47:16] <Kario> Okay. Do you think you could do a sketch of an underground city *in* a spire, then? There are a lot of directions we could build off of that.
[Sun 08] [21:47:34] <TommyChong> rigth
[Sun 08] [21:48:38] <Kario> Something analogous to the skyland interface screen that Skyrates players got, where you could hit up various points in the city to take care of business.
[Sun 08] [21:48:51] <Burrito_Loco> Bloody
[Sun 08] [21:48:59] <Burrito_Loco> I still haven't written up my bit...
[Sun 08] [21:49:00] <Burrito_Loco> Man
[Sun 08] [21:49:03] <Burrito_Loco> this is getting silly
[Sun 08] [21:49:30] <TommyChong> oh, so some interface too
[Sun 08] [21:49:32] <TommyChong> ?
[Sun 08] [21:51:05] <Kario> Well, the way I see it (other people here should speak up with their thoughts too) you'd have multiple views of each individual location. One that gives you a good overall picture of the place, one central UI screen much like the skyland screen, and possibly others as necessary.
[Sun 08] [21:51:20] <Kario> And the 'skyland' screen would be a good chance to get a cross-section of the city.
[Sun 08] [21:51:57] <Tod> I think that would be cool
[Sun 08] [21:52:51] <TommyChong> sounds good
[Sun 08] [21:54:25] <TommyChong> though I imagined at first it would be a bit more skyrate-y
[Sun 08] [21:55:46] <TommyChong> trade/hangar would look the same at various location (maybe just 2-3 variations of it), just with different npcs showing up.
[Sun 08] [21:56:20] <Kario> I think we can use templates for the building locations, yeah.
[Sun 08] [21:56:44] <TommyChong> and the skyland screen with different views of that location
[Sun 08] [21:56:53] <Kario> I do like the idea of swapping out a couple of NPCs if possible just to not make it so... cut-and-paste.
[Sun 08] [21:56:57] <TommyChong> you know, changes everytime you land there
[Sun 08] [21:58:00] <TommyChong> that's about it though, from me.
[Sun 08] [21:59:09] <TommyChong> (or do we need that for first release?)
[Sun 08] [21:59:51] <Kario> Going on a slight tangent here, one of the things that always struck me as weird about Skyrates was the scale of things. There weren't too many buildings and there wasn't evidence of large cities on most of the skylands, so it was really unclear what populations looked like or where people lived.
[Sun 08] [21:59:58] <Kario> I'd prefer not to leave similar questions in the minds of our players.
[Sun 08] [22:00:42] <Tod> that threw me off, too.
[Sun 08] [22:01:01] <TommyChong> ha
[Sun 08] [22:01:07] <Tod> though the same graphic being reused on multiple islands would throw me off as well
[Sun 08] [22:01:23] <Kario> (I need to run out and do lunch, so someone else spell me for a bit. I know you guys are watching, and you *know* it if I mean you.)
[Sun 08] [22:01:48] <Kario> (My question for the day, if you run out of things to talk about, is how to properly credit people for their intellectual contributions.)
[Sun 08] [22:02:20] <Kuviare> Mmm
[Sun 08] [22:04:33] <TommyChong> have a npc version of them appear in the game. <.<
[Sun 08] [22:05:14] <Kuviare> ^ this so hard
[Sun 08] [22:06:22] <Austin_J> I was thinking that we might name spires after them.
[Sun 08] [22:08:35] <TommyChong> oh, example please?
[Sun 08] [22:09:06] <Marcus`Langley> Kario; IIRC the scale thing was always handwaved as abstractions, but I agree it always seemed odd.
[Sun 08] [22:09:08] <Kuviare> Well the issue with that is picking who gets what, and how do you acknowledge someone who contributed much less than others? Or much more? Do we go around and ask each one what they want?
[Sun 08] [22:10:55] <TommyChong> mmm
[Sun 08] [22:18:31] <Kuviare> Also I think there should be the standard crediting page, just with a list of contributors and perhaps links to their pages or contact info.
[Sun 08] [22:21:30] <Tod> I wouldn't personally ask for any more than that and consideration when/if the project starts making money
[Sun 08] [22:22:22] <Kuviare> Ah, that may be the real crux of things. Monetary compensation.
[Sun 08] [22:23:50] <TommyChong> how do I split loots?
[Sun 08] [22:23:54] <TommyChong> etc
[Sun 08] [22:24:01] <Kuviare> Yeah
[Sun 08] [22:27:09] <Kario> My specific question regarding attribution is that one of my authorial submissions gave me a great idea for one of our three faction names.
[Sun 08] [22:28:11] <Kuviare> Oh, do go on.
[Sun 08] [22:28:39] <Kario> Speaking of which, I think we can give them better unofficial placeholder names.
[Sun 08] [22:29:10] <Kuviare> Oooh, this I'm very eager to hear. I haven't found something to write about yet.
[Sun 08] [22:29:31] <Kario> There seems to be near-unanimous agreement that !Green is a republic and that !Blue is a federation.
[Sun 08] [22:30:41] <Kario> I guess the best term for !Red is a collective of some kind.
[Sun 08] [22:31:31] <Kario> Referring to the three factions as such will probably help minimize unintentional Skyrates carryoevers.
[Sun 08] [22:31:35] <Kario> *carry-overs
[Sun 08] [22:31:46] * Talon comes ALIVE
[Sun 08] [22:32:20] <Kuviare> Makes sense...
[Sun 08] [22:33:28] <Tod> awesome
[Sun 08] [22:33:36] <Kario> Although Eskay's idea just amuses the heck out of me and is admittedly easier to type.
[Sun 08] [22:33:40] * Burrito_Loco beats it back to death
[Sun 08] [22:33:57] <Talon> ugh
[Sun 08] [22:34:00] <Talon> republic is a direct carryover, though
[Sun 08] [22:34:08] <Talon> in other notes
[Sun 08] [22:34:21] <Talon> i think monetary consideration is something we can talk about...well, whenever
[Sun 08] [22:34:22] <Talon> but
[Sun 08] [22:34:38] <Talon> i plan on handling (paying for) all server and hosting costs
[Sun 08] [22:34:41] <Talon> and if/when we start making money
[Sun 08] [22:35:10] <Marcus`Langley> well a certain amount of faction name overlap is probably unavoidable. trying to come up with other words for the sake of not using one particular faction type just gets silly after a while.
[Sun 08] [22:35:48] <Kario> It does differ somewhat from a traditional republic in that it's House of Lords and House of LORDS.
[Sun 08] [22:35:50] <Talon> i think it's fairly logical to break it up depending on commitment and contributions
[Sun 08] [22:35:51] <Kuviare> Agreed
[Sun 08] [22:36:42] <Tod> I have to afk for a few but will be back asap
[Sun 08] [22:36:54] <Kario> Ugh. On that note, I should really e-mail Thorne and set up a discussion with him, then, since he hasn't been around for me to ask otherwise.
[Sun 08] [22:37:38] <Kario> *hasn't been around lately
[Sun 08] [22:40:08] <Kario> I want to know where he got his names and whether he'd be willing to revise his submission with editorial input or if he's just done.
[Sun 08] [22:41:11] <Kario> I largely suspect he's just done, but *censored for political reasons*
[Sun 08] [22:43:34] <Kario> Anyway.
[Sun 08] [22:43:34] <Kuviare> Oh my
[Sun 08] [22:43:52] <Kario> On that note, I still have very little input on most of my assignments.
[Sun 08] [22:43:55] <Kario> People should fix that.
[Sun 08] [22:44:17] <Talon> hmm
[Sun 08] [22:44:17] <Talon> yes
[Sun 08] [22:44:18] <Talon> probably
[Sun 08] [22:44:29] <Talon> and then aside from that
[Sun 08] [22:44:36] <Talon> i think it'll be a fairly even split
[Sun 08] [22:44:40] <Talon> 50/50 coders/artists
[Sun 08] [22:44:46] <Talon> and chump change to the writers ;)
[Sun 08] [22:44:48] <Talon> i kid
[Sun 08] [22:45:00] <Talon> probably something like 30/30/30/10 or something
[Sun 08] [22:45:09] <Talon> 10 being administrative overhead/payment for expansion of server/etc
[Sun 08] [22:45:23] <Talon> but that can be solidified into a contract if we ever get to that point
[Sun 08] [22:45:28] <Talon> which is unlikely
[Sun 08] [22:45:40] <Kario> Yeah. Getting a game out goes before we ever start worrying about monetary distribution.
[Sun 08] [22:46:16] <Talon> i think right now we have to focus on-right
[Sun 08] [22:46:25] <Kuviare> Agreed indeed. As for writing, I can have a look at things but... life's going to get busy
[Sun 08] [22:46:27] <Talon> we should turn some of the character art into digital art that meshes with the UI/UX
[Sun 08] [22:46:40] <Talon> and we should have some elements of the UI imported into the client
[Sun 08] [22:46:46] <Talon> and we should have the client be testable
[Sun 08] [22:46:48] * Talon pings matejcik
[Sun 08] [22:46:58] <matejcik> oh, hey talon
[Sun 08] [22:47:02] <matejcik> nice text wall you got there
[Sun 08] [22:47:08] <TommyChong> I can help with that
[Sun 08] [22:47:22] <TommyChong> not the text wall
[Sun 08] [22:48:01] <matejcik> so, yeah.
[Sun 08] [22:48:08] <matejcik> client. testable. monies. ux. got it all.
[Sun 08] [22:48:19] <matejcik> BL wisely ping-outed...
[Sun 08] [22:50:18] <Kario> Technically, minimal world-building is necessary to get a testable client, provided that all the variables are clearly labeled.
[Sun 08] [22:51:53] <Eskay> Discussing how to distribute the huge piles of money you're planning to make?
[Sun 08] [22:52:21] <Eskay> Considering Skyrates afaik never made any, that shouldn't be a problem for a good while yet.
[Sun 08] [22:53:38] <Talon> lol
[Sun 08] [22:53:43] <Talon> right, what eskay said
[Sun 08] [22:53:51] <Talon> client/testable, how close are we looking?
[Sun 08] [22:54:00] <matejcik> remember katie's client, there was no worldbuilding ;e)
[Sun 08] [22:54:03] <Talon> :P
[Sun 08] [22:54:06] <matejcik> well, some code is there
[Sun 08] [22:54:18] <matejcik> i clearly remember offering it up for testing
[Sun 08] [22:54:28] <matejcik> i don't remember in what state it was though
[Sun 08] [22:54:44] <matejcik> and i'll be honest in that i haven't touched it for the last six or so weeks at least
[Sun 08] [22:55:21] <Eskay> I vaguely remembering looking at some version of the code and deciding it looked complicated to set up.
[Sun 08] [22:55:35] <Talon> hmmm\
[Sun 08] [22:55:36] <matejcik> well, yes.
[Sun 08] [22:55:41] <Talon> we shouldn't just play with katie's right?
[Sun 08] [22:55:43] <matejcik> talon was tasked with learning how to set it up.
[Sun 08] [22:56:12] <matejcik> and deploy it on jetty. that i remember very clearly :ep
[Sun 08] [22:56:18] <Talon> :P
[Sun 08] [22:56:29] <Talon> sorry, time constraints :(
[Sun 08] [22:56:33] * Talon looks over the codelet.
[Sun 08] [23:00:37] <Tod> I'm back again. Sorry about that.
[Sun 08] [23:05:10] <Talon> np
[Sun 08] [23:05:11] <Talon> so
[Sun 08] [23:05:21] <Talon> we should set up pipelines for the product, essentiall
[Sun 08] [23:05:32] <Talon> get the character art digitized and into the style of the UI that we'll have
[Sun 08] [23:05:59] <Tod> by 'digitized' do you mean computer colored, or scanned and in a proper file format?
[Sun 08] [23:06:32] <Talon> i think mostly it needs to match into the UI
[Sun 08] [23:06:34] <Talon> or rather
[Sun 08] [23:06:35] <Talon> actualyl
[Sun 08] [23:06:37] <Talon> for that matter
[Sun 08] [23:06:37] <Talon> right now
[Sun 08] [23:06:38] <Tod> I am not sure what that means.
[Sun 08] [23:06:44] <Talon> we just need to integrate asssets into the game client itself
[Sun 08] [23:07:05] <Talon> and then create more client stuff, as well
[Sun 08] [23:07:25] <Tod> well, let me know what you need from me - I have b&w lineart png files, and am planning on hand coloring the characters. I am not so good at digital coloring.
[Sun 08] [23:07:55] <Talon> TommyChong?
[Sun 08] [23:08:03] <TommyChong> yes?
[Sun 08] [23:08:13] <Kario> (New assignment posted, with another one coming later today as well.)
[Sun 08] [23:08:29] <Kuviare> ( Huzzah, will get on that )
[Sun 08] [23:09:55] <Tod> though maybe watercolor characters would look good? :D?
[Sun 08] [23:09:59] <matejcik> yes, well, we need someone to do the integration
[Sun 08] [23:10:41] <TommyChong> no harm in trying
[Sun 08] [23:11:33] <matejcik> actually
[Sun 08] [23:11:39] <matejcik> what Talon said is not entirely correct
[Sun 08] [23:11:53] <matejcik> we need someone to create the UI itself first
[Sun 08] [23:11:58] <TommyChong> I'll try to put together a ui-ish screen with character
[Sun 08] [23:11:59] <matejcik> then we can integrate art into it
[Sun 08] [23:12:33] <TommyChong> mmm
[Sun 08] [23:12:48] <matejcik> great.. Tommy, in what format do you output your work? image file?
[Sun 08] [23:13:06] <matejcik> because if yes, we need someone else to turn it into a html5 page ;e)
[Sun 08] [23:14:05] <TommyChong> I work with image files, yes
[Sun 08] [23:14:37] <TommyChong> Use flash for vectors and whatnot
[Sun 08] [23:19:57] <TommyChong> do we have that someone else?
[Sun 08] [23:20:02] <TommyChong> just wondering.
[Sun 08] [23:20:15] <matejcik> 'fraid not
[Sun 08] [23:20:49] <Eskay> I can sometimes do something with HTML. No promises.
[Sun 08] [23:21:52] <TommyChong> I code better than a lint roller. Close competition too.
[Sun 08] [23:28:46] <Kuviare> Beats me out
[Sun 08] [23:29:36] <sohum> Lint rollers are actually really good at coding. I don't want to generalise, but it's something about their stick-to-it-iveness, I think
[Sun 08] [23:29:50] <Kuviare> Hehehe
[Sun 08] [23:30:00] <TommyChong> :D
[Sun 08] [23:30:10] <matejcik> well if the worse comes to worst, i -could- do it. but i'm not particularly keen on it, and i believe that my skills are better used elsewhere
[Sun 08] [23:30:27] <matejcik> and the same thing can probably be said about Tommy, so there.
[Sun 08] [23:30:54] <matejcik> how come we don't have a html coder on the team? are there none in the SR community?
[Sun 08] [23:32:35] <matejcik> or is the coding such a chore that nobody wants to do it? [smirk]
[Sun 08] [23:35:31] * Tod doesn't know how to do any of that stuff, sadly.
[Sun 08] [23:36:04] <Tod> My site-design training ended with sweet web 1.0 frames and stuff ;P
[Sun 08] [23:39:22] <matejcik> btw, off topic but still. did you folks know that despite all their evilness, frames are still the best choice for blind users? because the navigation doesn't get in the way and the screen reader doesn't repeat it on every page load
[Sun 08] [23:40:17] * matejcik is an useless-trivia spewing device
[Sun 08] [23:41:26] <Tod> maybe we could make an accessable/text-based version at some point
[Sun 08] [23:43:29] <Eskay> I think that's more of a sign of the uselessness of current web technologies to blind users
[Sun 08] [23:43:35] <Eskay> than of any inherent utility of frames.
[Sun 08] [23:43:54] <sohum> what was the problem with frames, anyway?
[Sun 08] [23:44:21] <sohum> bookmarkability?
[Sun 08] [23:44:57] <Eskay> They mess with browsers' ability to tell where they are.
[Sun 08] [23:45:02] <Eskay> Where they've been, etc.
[Sun 08] [23:45:56] <sohum> right. seems like it should be possible to assign a name to <collection of pages rendered in this way> and still keep the semantic content of <these things are unchanging>
[Sun 08] [23:46:42] <Eskay> You could invent a standard.
[Sun 08] [23:46:50] <matejcik> html5 does have a <navigation> element or some such. step one, everyone start using it, step two, readers use it for profit
[Sun 08] [23:46:59] <sohum> mmm.
[Sun 08] [23:47:01] <sohum> excellent
[Sun 08] [23:47:10] <sohum> if the standard exists, I consider the problem solved
[Sun 08] [23:52:23] <Eskay> Like Wave?
[Sun 08] [23:52:33] <Eskay> Or does that not apply to problems in general?
[Sun 08] [23:53:16] <sohum> heheheheheh
[Sun 08] [23:56:24] <Eskay> Do people have opinions on my money idea I posted?
[Sun 08] [23:58:41] <matejcik> you mean that idea where we don't make any?
[Sun 08] [23:58:55] <Kuviare> XD
[Mon 09] [00:02:23] <Eskay> No, the idea for the in-game money.
[Mon 09] [00:02:43] <Eskay> I mean this one: fauxrates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=suggestions&action=display&thread=44&page=1
[Mon 09] [00:02:53] <Eskay> The gist is to give each of the nations their own currency.
[Mon 09] [00:04:19] <Kuviare> Ah, I liked the idea very much! The only issue is coming up with three currencies.
[Mon 09] [00:04:29] <Tod> I think that's cool. Will the exchange rates change?
[Mon 09] [00:04:55] <Eskay> I don't know yet. I don't know what effect that would have on gameplay.
[Mon 09] [00:05:06] <Eskay> So far I've only worked it out in my head for fixed rates.
[Mon 09] [00:06:08] <Talon> html?
[Mon 09] [00:06:15] <Talon> css5! html5!
[Mon 09] [00:06:16] <Talon> frames!
[Mon 09] [00:06:18] <Talon> lol, frames
[Mon 09] [00:06:54] <Talon> also
[Mon 09] [00:06:55] <Talon> hmm
[Mon 09] [00:07:09] <Talon> i like that idea a lot, eskay
[Mon 09] [00:07:18] <Kario> Fixed-rates seem like the best idea.
[Mon 09] [00:07:39] <Talon> iiiiii
[Mon 09] [00:07:45] <Tod> if the rates changed, that could add a fun element
[Mon 09] [00:07:47] <Talon> agree with that
[Mon 09] [00:07:48] <Kario> There should be a minor but distinct advantage to trading at home, thus there is a distinct but minor advantage to controlling places.
[Mon 09] [00:07:50] <Tod> something else to keep track of
[Mon 09] [00:07:51] <Talon> but we can fiddle with exchange rates
[Mon 09] [00:07:54] <Talon> especially at high levels
[Mon 09] [00:08:18] <Eskay> As part of designing three nations, we should design three currencies.
[Mon 09] [00:08:29] <Eskay> The #$, the %$, and the &$.
[Mon 09] [00:08:33] <Kario> More to the point, the fee should be the same for both ctions.
[Mon 09] [00:08:37] <Kario> *both directions
[Mon 09] [00:08:51] <Talon> oh, well, yes
[Mon 09] [00:09:08] <Talon> it should be small but not existent, the fee will be standardized and the same, and
[Mon 09] [00:09:19] <Talon> we should have some fun signs
[Mon 09] [00:09:22] <Talon> i.e. g-squigglies
[Mon 09] [00:10:19] <Kuviare> And interrobangs
[Mon 09] [00:10:40] <Talon> sure
[Mon 09] [00:10:45] <Talon> tohugh i think this is slightly off topica
[Mon 09] [00:10:46] <Talon> *topic
[Mon 09] [00:10:55] <Eskay> For development's sake we should keep the currencies typeable.
[Mon 09] [00:10:56] <Talon> TommyChong, can you integrate what tod's doing with characters into your UI?
[Mon 09] [00:11:04] <Talon> gsquig isn't quite typable :P
[Mon 09] [00:11:12] <Talon> er, i mean, easily
[Mon 09] [00:11:19] <Talon> i'm sure there's a unicode char for g-cedila
[Mon 09] [00:11:49] <Kario> Collective-currency will be interesting.
[Mon 09] [00:12:05] <TommyChong> sure. I may try recolor some if I have time
[Mon 09] [00:12:18] <Kario> What do you integrate when you're a society that spent its entire early history delivering goods on a purely need-based system?
[Mon 09] [00:13:20] <Eskay> Cell phone minutes?
[Mon 09] [00:14:42] * sohum winces
[Mon 09] [00:14:48] <sohum> that's... actually really interesting
[Mon 09] [00:15:17] <sohum> cell phone minutes as communication-turned-currency... shades of whuffie, but more direct, more something
[Mon 09] [00:15:41] <Eskay> It is an example taken from real life -- they are the de facto currency in regions of Africa.
[Mon 09] [00:15:42] <sohum> not particularly in the fauxrates theme, but fascinating all the same
[Mon 09] [00:15:48] <sohum> wait, really?
[Mon 09] [00:15:59] <Eskay> yes.
[Mon 09] [00:16:09] <sohum> that is ... okay, that is really really neat
[Mon 09] [00:18:07] <Talon> TommyChong: kay. i think a nice mockup of an actual game screen with tod's characters would be a good first step
[Mon 09] [00:18:12] <Talon> (profile page, i suppose?)
[Mon 09] [00:18:32] <TommyChong> ?
[Mon 09] [00:18:44] <Talon> w/ regards to your sure earlier
[Mon 09] [00:18:49] <Talon> just sort of continuing that
[Mon 09] [00:18:50] <Talon> line of thought
[Mon 09] [00:19:24] <TommyChong> let see
[Mon 09] [00:20:13] <Talon> currency needs to have real (or assumed) value, needs to be portable, and can't expire
[Mon 09] [00:20:24] <Talon> i.e. no fruit, which rots
[Mon 09] [00:21:01] <sohum> should be fungible, which probably rules out things like gemstones
[Mon 09] [00:35:00] <Eskay> Well, semiprecious stones shouldn't be any worse at that than precious metals, should they?
[Mon 09] [00:43:00] <Tod> semiprecious stones with a specific cut, maybe?
[Mon 09] [00:50:12] <Austin_J> Rupees!
[Mon 09] [00:51:02] <Austin_J> I mean, we can't use that name without getting sued by Nintendo, but it's the same basic idea.
[Mon 09] [00:51:40] <Talon> lol
[Mon 09] [00:51:44] <Talon> hmm
[Mon 09] [00:51:49] <Talon> if they each adopted a different gemstone?
[Mon 09] [00:51:52] <Talon> no, that's not different enough
[Mon 09] [00:51:57] <Talon> i think it'd be intersesting if say
[Mon 09] [00:51:59] <Talon> fuel or alcohol
[Mon 09] [00:52:11] <Talon> were considered a currency
[Mon 09] [00:55:44] <Kario> I've toyed with the idea of fuel as a baseline item.
[Mon 09] [00:56:08] <Kuviare> That would be neat... especially because then you /need/ money to fly
[Mon 09] [00:56:25] <Eskay> Very SR2.3.
[Mon 09] [00:56:57] <Eskay> Needing money to fly, I mean.
[Mon 09] [01:01:54] <Kario> If only one faction uses barrels of fuel as a standard currency unit, I think it should be the collective.
[Mon 09] [01:02:10] <Kario> Alternatively, I posit that all nations could perhaps use barrels of fuel as a standard currency.
[Mon 09] [01:02:59] <Eskay> Makes it a right pain to go buy a loaf of bread.
[Mon 09] [01:03:01] <Austin_J> I assume aircraft wouldn't have a maximum range, then? It's just a matter of "can I afford to burn that much of my cash to get there"?
[Mon 09] [01:03:41] <Tod> the currency itself could be shares of barrels of oil
[Mon 09] [01:03:52] <Kario> I think range would still be something to consider.
[Mon 09] [01:04:01] <Kario> It's the simplest way of balancing access.
[Mon 09] [01:04:38] <Kario> Mind you, we may not need to, but either way it's something of a tertiary step.
[Mon 09] [01:06:37] <Eskay> I think we mustn't make fuel only one faction's currency. That would give starting players a very dramatically different experience in that faction from others.
[Mon 09] [01:07:57] <Kario> I can accept this stance.
[Mon 09] [01:08:10] <sohum> unless we can come up with something equally different for the others. fuel, bullets, and...
[Mon 09] [01:20:26] <Talon> lol
[Mon 09] [01:20:27] <Talon> food
[Mon 09] [01:20:31] <Talon> but it doesn't quite work
[Mon 09] [01:22:17] <Mahmoth> Then you're just going into bartering...
[Mon 09] [03:27:26] <Talon> so i figure that's the end of the meeting :P
If he wanted changes, I would've made them, there was no reason to disparage me.