Post by Marcus Langley on Oct 30, 2011 21:10:37 GMT -5
Ze most recent meeting.
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[Sun 30] [20:08:07] <Burrito_Loco> So, what's on the docket for today?
[Sun 30] [20:08:10] <Kario> Hey, speak of the devil.
[Sun 30] [20:08:13] * Ellington hides
[Sun 30] [20:08:21] <Ellington> devil!
[Sun 30] [20:08:32] <Burrito_Loco> Last week Mate and I got our architecture more or less hammered out
[Sun 30] [20:08:43] <Burrito_Loco> Now we just need to, you know, write everything
[Sun 30] [20:08:44] <Burrito_Loco> >.>
[Sun 30] [20:08:45] <Burrito_Loco> <.<
[Sun 30] [20:09:10] <Ellington> architecture meaning.. how to set everything up? systems and all that?
[Sun 30] [20:09:16] * Burrito_Loco mostly wasted his time doing more prose-centric writing
[Sun 30] [20:09:24] <Burrito_Loco> Yeah, data structures and relationships
[Sun 30] [20:09:37] * Ellington nods like he has more than the faintest
[Sun 30] [20:10:07] <Burrito_Loco> Upshot: we have a pretty good idea what we want to do
[Sun 30] [20:10:08] <Burrito_Loco> Now we just need to do it
[Sun 30] [20:10:42] <Ellington> Aiming for the start of the year version .5? :D
[Sun 30] [20:11:57] <Ellington> and I think today schedule is trade w/ some capital finizalisation
[Sun 30] [20:13:56] <Kario> Well, we pretty much told everybody last week that capitals weren't getting hammered out until next week. Trade discussion seems like a good idea, though.
[Sun 30] [20:15:57] <Ellington> What all do we need besides goods?
[Sun 30] [20:16:56] <Burrito_Loco> I think we are, Ell
[Sun 30] [20:18:58] * Burrito_Loco tosses in a bit of tentative flavor: burritoloco.wordpress.com/ (two newer ones)
[Sun 30] [20:25:46] <Ellington> i like the idea for trade of random (on first landings) 'deals' popping up
[Sun 30] [20:26:19] <Kario> I rather like the idea of established houses, BL. Maybe something we can work in. It strikes me as very neo-green.
[Sun 30] [20:26:27] <Burrito_Loco> Maybe bar vs consulate vs trade house missions?
[Sun 30] [20:27:37] <Kario> Missions are a whole big thing I'd like to get into, and I kind of want to pull them away from the whole "missions are the endgame" rut that Skyrates hit.
[Sun 30] [20:27:43] <Burrito_Loco> Note: houses as in trading houses/firms not Dune houses. If anything Blue (herein referred to as the Federates Island States) would be far more likely to maintin houses in that style
[Sun 30] [20:28:02] <Kario> Oh. In that case I agree.
[Sun 30] [20:28:08] <Burrito_Loco> (In my mind they operate somewhat like Italy or Greece)
[Sun 30] [20:28:50] <Burrito_Loco> A loose group of city states that infight constantly joining forces only when an intruder threatens
[Sun 30] [20:28:56] <Kario> Though now I'm imagining a political conflict within Green between old money and new bigger business.
[Sun 30] [20:28:59] <Ellington> if then
[Sun 30] [20:29:56] <Burrito_Loco> It's all green, man. Money is all that talks. Old money has more weight, maybe, but it's still gotta be money
[Sun 30] [20:30:08] <Ellington> old money often leads to social inbreeding
[Sun 30] [20:30:48] <Ellington> And trust me, I live near old money.. they CAN be clannish, insular, and look down on outsiders.. and new money counts as outisders
[Sun 30] [20:30:55] <Burrito_Loco> Heh
[Sun 30] [20:31:10] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, but no one says no to J.P. Morgan
[Sun 30] [20:31:23] <Ellington> bad old money example?
[Sun 30] [20:31:26] <Kario> Maybe that can be a thing. Old money has been holding power for a while, and as a new pilot, you're looking into trying to shake things up, since you're tired of the old status quo.
[Sun 30] [20:31:43] <Burrito_Loco> Or merely to join their ranks
[Sun 30] [20:32:03] <Kario> One or the other.
[Sun 30] [20:32:21] <Ellington> shaking up status quo often means 'man, I wanna be king'
[Sun 30] [20:34:01] <Burrito_Loco> True 'nuff though we shouldn't worry about motivation
[Sun 30] [20:34:20] <Burrito_Loco> the player supplies that, we merely supply the setting
[Sun 30] [20:34:59] <Ellington> I think we are doing a good job of supplying tension within the new factions
[Sun 30] [20:37:51] <Burrito_Loco> Though to get back to the original topic, trading is closely tied to progression
[Sun 30] [20:38:11] <Ellington> true
[Sun 30] [20:38:48] <Burrito_Loco> So it's important to open goods and profit opportunities at the right pace (not to mention new transportation options_
[Sun 30] [20:38:50] <Burrito_Loco> )*
[Sun 30] [20:39:16] <Burrito_Loco> Man, I'm running out of Samurai Jack, this is sad (if utterly unrelated)
[Sun 30] [20:40:03] <Ellington> how much do we need to get nailed down and how much is tweaking?
[Sun 30] [20:40:25] <Kario> Well, for a demo, we only really need to know how many goods we're using.
[Sun 30] [20:40:45] <Burrito_Loco> I think we should have a strong idea, at least of the timeframes we would like to see.
[Sun 30] [20:40:48] <Burrito_Loco> Sure
[Sun 30] [20:42:02] <Ellington> well, are we using tiers like previous?
[Sun 30] [20:42:09] <Burrito_Loco> In my own personal world we'd primarily deal in perishables and luxury goods. Since heavy shipping can handle bulk goods. Though even some of those might be traded via airship.
[Sun 30] [20:42:21] <Burrito_Loco> Tiers for planes or goods?
[Sun 30] [20:42:56] <Ellington> both?
[Sun 30] [20:43:16] <Burrito_Loco> I feel like we should at least establish a continuum for them on which we can rate and/or place them
[Sun 30] [20:43:33] <Burrito_Loco> Otherwise it gets all mushy
[Sun 30] [20:44:02] <Kario> I agree with goods tiers, at least from a dev perspective.
[Sun 30] [20:45:39] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed
[Sun 30] [20:46:26] <Burrito_Loco> Plus, it stands to reason that a load of carrots ain't worth as much as diamonds
[Sun 30] [20:46:33] <Ellington> BL: I see a small flaw in your bulk shipper argument... supply. Depending on how resource scarce the world is, it might be hard to fill bulk haulers.. in realism terms, anyway
[Sun 30] [20:46:41] <Burrito_Loco> True
[Sun 30] [20:46:53] <Ellington> in the desert, to the thirsty man... water is worth everything, diamonds, nothing
[Sun 30] [20:47:26] <Burrito_Loco> true, there are relative economies, but I have trouble seeing much use for timber a board foot at a time, no?
[Sun 30] [20:47:45] <Ellington> true. SO, how do we want to do it? A trade wheel like skyrates?
[Sun 30] [20:48:19] <Burrito_Loco> wheels are reasonably elegant user interface solutions
[Sun 30] [20:49:13] <Austin_J> I think we could fit up to 16 goods on a wheel without the interface getting too unweidly to the end-user. Although less may be preferable
[Sun 30] [20:49:49] <Kario> 10-16 seems like a reasonable goal.
[Sun 30] [20:51:22] <Ellington> skyrates has 12
[Sun 30] [20:51:35] <Ellington> 5-4-3
[Sun 30] [20:51:36] <Burrito_Loco> I think 300 is a good number
[Sun 30] [20:51:44] <Ellington> to dine in hell
[Sun 30] [20:55:44] <Ellington> 13 goods? With sometime bonuses of discounts, better quality goods, etc?
[Sun 30] [20:56:40] <Kario> I think a soft limit is better while we figure out what sorts of things we want players to deal in.
[Sun 30] [20:56:51] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed
[Sun 30] [20:57:03] <Kario> It'd be better if we had the flexibility to cut down to 12 or go up to 16 than to say "okay, we have one spot to fill in our wheel."
[Sun 30] [20:57:06] <Burrito_Loco> Just need to remember not to go nuts
[Sun 30] [20:57:19] <Ellington> youre the only one who said 300 :P
[Sun 30] [20:57:22] <Burrito_Loco> and decide on 50 items or 3
[Sun 30] [20:57:36] <Ellington> 10-15 is fine
[Sun 30] [20:59:37] <Ellington> Do we want a seperate black market?
[Sun 30] [21:00:06] <Austin_J> T
[Sun 30] [21:00:10] <Burrito_Loco> I like the idea that that depending on the skyland
[Sun 30] [21:00:13] <Austin_J> hat might actually be kinda cool
[Sun 30] [21:00:23] <Burrito_Loco> differing items counts as black market
[Sun 30] [21:02:44] <Ellington> so 10-5ish regular, 5-8ish black market, depending?
[Sun 30] [21:02:59] <Burrito_Loco> Sure?
[Sun 30] [21:04:31] <Kario> I think 'separate black market' counts as an option more than as a set-in-stone thing.
[Sun 30] [21:11:03] <Ellington> anything else we need to decide on trade?
[Sun 30] [21:11:24] <Burrito_Loco> Is ultraviolet/infrared a good idea?
[Sun 30] [21:12:06] <Ellington> hrm. one of the complaints was that it gave very early leads to a select few
[Sun 30] [21:13:01] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, it pays dividends to the micromanager
[Sun 30] [21:13:27] <Ellington> or those with too much time.
[Sun 30] [21:13:28] <Burrito_Loco> And it does make for hilariously unrealistic margins
[Sun 30] [21:13:50] <Ellington> Maybe... infrared/ultra after the first month or so?
[Sun 30] [21:13:57] <Burrito_Loco> (Though, to be fair, margins exceeding 50% are pretty insane in general)
[Sun 30] [21:13:59] <Ellington> or is that too complex?
[Sun 30] [21:14:34] <Burrito_Loco> Maybe they only apply to very high end goods
[Sun 30] [21:15:04] <Burrito_Loco> Bread is a highly inelastic good, for isntance
[Sun 30] [21:15:07] <Burrito_Loco> instance*
[Sun 30] [21:16:41] <Ellington> yeah, that makes more sense. Or more RP oriented infrared... 'tortuga 2 has been under seige.. bread needed, diamonds not so much'
[Sun 30] [21:17:23] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, a tip system would be fun, would a tip per landing have balance issues?
[Sun 30] [21:17:49] <Burrito_Loco> It also creates a somewhat capricious system, though
[Sun 30] [21:18:17] <Burrito_Loco> Where mere chance can net you a huge windfall. (Not unrealistic, but might anger players)
[Sun 30] [21:18:38] <Kario> That sounds like it's more of a v1.2 thing.
[Sun 30] [21:18:42] <Burrito_Loco> Also
[Sun 30] [21:18:55] <Burrito_Loco> Mayhap the black market element takes care of the problem for us?
[Sun 30] [21:19:01] <Burrito_Loco> Gamblers can play that
[Sun 30] [21:19:21] <Burrito_Loco> twice the payoff for a 50% chance your goods get confiscated
[Sun 30] [21:19:35] <Kario> More basic question.
[Sun 30] [21:19:46] <Kario> Do we like the idea of multiple levels of quality for a given category of trade goods?
[Sun 30] [21:19:48] <Ellington> I do think illegal goods should NOT be safe 100% of the time
[Sun 30] [21:20:08] <Burrito_Loco> I am not a huge fan of tiers within tiers
[Sun 30] [21:20:16] <Ellington> keyo: my opinion: Not really. Maybe some sorta ocasional bonus
[Sun 30] [21:20:34] <Burrito_Loco> It's really effectively the same as adding goods
[Sun 30] [21:20:48] <Ellington> cept more complicated
[Sun 30] [21:20:55] <Austin_J> I agree, Black Market should be for the "high risk high reward" option.
[Sun 30] [21:21:35] <Burrito_Loco> Black market might even work both ways where buying black market is cheaper but has a chance of being fake/spolied/etc
[Sun 30] [21:21:41] <Burrito_Loco> spoiled*
[Sun 30] [21:22:09] <Burrito_Loco> So you can make *serious* money buying black and selling black though your odds of failure become immense
[Sun 30] [21:22:22] <Kario> I like the idea of having a separate market for dubious goods, whether at a cheaper buy price or because they're illegal in certain governments.
[Sun 30] [21:22:30] <Kario> (On that note, what would be illegal in Blue?)
[Sun 30] [21:22:31] <Ellington> but black market isnt open to just everybody... no newbies
[Sun 30] [21:22:48] <Burrito_Loco> You have to earn your stripes
[Sun 30] [21:22:51] <Burrito_Loco> Of course
[Sun 30] [21:23:03] <Burrito_Loco> Depends on the port of call, Kario
[Sun 30] [21:23:13] <Burrito_Loco> also
[Sun 30] [21:23:24] <Burrito_Loco> There's always simple things like pure trade protectionism
[Sun 30] [21:23:59] <Ellington> yeah, smuggling can be pure tarif avoidance
[Sun 30] [21:24:57] <Burrito_Loco> No, I like the idea of high risk/high reward
[Sun 30] [21:25:51] <Burrito_Loco> (causes some odd things to get blacklisted on occasion, but hey, bureaucracies can be a bit odd sometimes)
[Sun 30] [21:26:35] <Ellington> *nod
[Sun 30] [21:28:30] <TommyChong> Merf
[Sun 30] [21:29:01] <Ellington> lo TC
[Sun 30] [21:29:18] <TommyChong> hi
[Sun 30] [21:29:25] <TommyChong> you've been missed
[Sun 30] [21:29:45] <TommyChong> though I have nothing to show for this meeting.
[Sun 30] [21:30:01] <TommyChong> :P
[Sun 30] [21:30:41] <Austin_J> I *almost* have a concept for the Red capital done, but I've been so busy this week with family issues that its not finished.
[Sun 30] [21:32:58] <Kario> I'm still lobbying for the idea of three types of contraband, one banned by each faction.
[Sun 30] [21:33:49] <Ellington> Thats... something to consider, but three permabanned seems harsh
[Sun 30] [21:35:49] <Ellington> Thank you AJ :) belive you me, we understand issues coming up
[Sun 30] [21:37:35] <Austin_J> This one will actually be shaded and stuff! And hopefully look halfway decent in the process.
[Sun 30] [21:43:31] <Kario> Well, again, it's a black market skill, so it's not going to be done by everyone.
[Sun 30] [21:44:18] <Kario> And you'll just, y'know, not trade at places where you know it's banned.
[Sun 30] [21:44:48] <Kario> Having something permabanned by a faction takes the guesswork out of when.
[Sun 30] [21:45:21] <Burrito_Loco> Well yeah, it'd have to be static or updated a midnight on Tuesday or something. Not just whenever the hell
[Sun 30] [21:47:11] <Kario> It would?
[Sun 30] [21:48:00] <Burrito_Loco> Well, no, not from a technical standpoint
[Sun 30] [21:48:09] <Burrito_Loco> but from a not pulling your hair out one...
[Sun 30] [21:48:18] <Austin_J> But from a gameplay standpoint, yeah
[Sun 30] [21:53:31] <Ellington> i think smuggling should be something like: # of crates, + player smuggling skill, - island alertness
[Sun 30] [21:55:05] <Austin_J> I love how we're coming up with a smuggling subsystem :)
[Sun 30] [22:02:01] <Kario> I suppose it'll also depend on how we calculate island control.
[Sun 30] [22:03:21] <Burrito_Loco> Which is part of why I like per island, not per faction, but whatevs
[Sun 30] [22:04:40] <Ellington> yeah... 'oops, flag flipped. trip is ruined' is kinda sucky... not entirely unreasonable, but meh
[Sun 30] [22:07:17] <Austin_J> Alright people, I gotta go and do more family stuff.
[Sun 30] [22:07:36] <Ellington> bye!
[Sun 30] [22:08:13] <Kario> I'd argue that since the whole point of black market trading is high risk, high reward, meant to be used by those who want volatile trading...
[Sun 30] [22:11:53] <Ellington> black market aside, any other stuff to be discussed?
[Sun 30] [22:13:00] <Kario> I think we're mostly making sure that anyone who wants input on capitals and on trade framework is here next week so we can take votes.
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[Sun 30] [20:08:07] <Burrito_Loco> So, what's on the docket for today?
[Sun 30] [20:08:10] <Kario> Hey, speak of the devil.
[Sun 30] [20:08:13] * Ellington hides
[Sun 30] [20:08:21] <Ellington> devil!
[Sun 30] [20:08:32] <Burrito_Loco> Last week Mate and I got our architecture more or less hammered out
[Sun 30] [20:08:43] <Burrito_Loco> Now we just need to, you know, write everything
[Sun 30] [20:08:44] <Burrito_Loco> >.>
[Sun 30] [20:08:45] <Burrito_Loco> <.<
[Sun 30] [20:09:10] <Ellington> architecture meaning.. how to set everything up? systems and all that?
[Sun 30] [20:09:16] * Burrito_Loco mostly wasted his time doing more prose-centric writing
[Sun 30] [20:09:24] <Burrito_Loco> Yeah, data structures and relationships
[Sun 30] [20:09:37] * Ellington nods like he has more than the faintest
[Sun 30] [20:10:07] <Burrito_Loco> Upshot: we have a pretty good idea what we want to do
[Sun 30] [20:10:08] <Burrito_Loco> Now we just need to do it
[Sun 30] [20:10:42] <Ellington> Aiming for the start of the year version .5? :D
[Sun 30] [20:11:57] <Ellington> and I think today schedule is trade w/ some capital finizalisation
[Sun 30] [20:13:56] <Kario> Well, we pretty much told everybody last week that capitals weren't getting hammered out until next week. Trade discussion seems like a good idea, though.
[Sun 30] [20:15:57] <Ellington> What all do we need besides goods?
[Sun 30] [20:16:56] <Burrito_Loco> I think we are, Ell
[Sun 30] [20:18:58] * Burrito_Loco tosses in a bit of tentative flavor: burritoloco.wordpress.com/ (two newer ones)
[Sun 30] [20:25:46] <Ellington> i like the idea for trade of random (on first landings) 'deals' popping up
[Sun 30] [20:26:19] <Kario> I rather like the idea of established houses, BL. Maybe something we can work in. It strikes me as very neo-green.
[Sun 30] [20:26:27] <Burrito_Loco> Maybe bar vs consulate vs trade house missions?
[Sun 30] [20:27:37] <Kario> Missions are a whole big thing I'd like to get into, and I kind of want to pull them away from the whole "missions are the endgame" rut that Skyrates hit.
[Sun 30] [20:27:43] <Burrito_Loco> Note: houses as in trading houses/firms not Dune houses. If anything Blue (herein referred to as the Federates Island States) would be far more likely to maintin houses in that style
[Sun 30] [20:28:02] <Kario> Oh. In that case I agree.
[Sun 30] [20:28:08] <Burrito_Loco> (In my mind they operate somewhat like Italy or Greece)
[Sun 30] [20:28:50] <Burrito_Loco> A loose group of city states that infight constantly joining forces only when an intruder threatens
[Sun 30] [20:28:56] <Kario> Though now I'm imagining a political conflict within Green between old money and new bigger business.
[Sun 30] [20:28:59] <Ellington> if then
[Sun 30] [20:29:56] <Burrito_Loco> It's all green, man. Money is all that talks. Old money has more weight, maybe, but it's still gotta be money
[Sun 30] [20:30:08] <Ellington> old money often leads to social inbreeding
[Sun 30] [20:30:48] <Ellington> And trust me, I live near old money.. they CAN be clannish, insular, and look down on outsiders.. and new money counts as outisders
[Sun 30] [20:30:55] <Burrito_Loco> Heh
[Sun 30] [20:31:10] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, but no one says no to J.P. Morgan
[Sun 30] [20:31:23] <Ellington> bad old money example?
[Sun 30] [20:31:26] <Kario> Maybe that can be a thing. Old money has been holding power for a while, and as a new pilot, you're looking into trying to shake things up, since you're tired of the old status quo.
[Sun 30] [20:31:43] <Burrito_Loco> Or merely to join their ranks
[Sun 30] [20:32:03] <Kario> One or the other.
[Sun 30] [20:32:21] <Ellington> shaking up status quo often means 'man, I wanna be king'
[Sun 30] [20:34:01] <Burrito_Loco> True 'nuff though we shouldn't worry about motivation
[Sun 30] [20:34:20] <Burrito_Loco> the player supplies that, we merely supply the setting
[Sun 30] [20:34:59] <Ellington> I think we are doing a good job of supplying tension within the new factions
[Sun 30] [20:37:51] <Burrito_Loco> Though to get back to the original topic, trading is closely tied to progression
[Sun 30] [20:38:11] <Ellington> true
[Sun 30] [20:38:48] <Burrito_Loco> So it's important to open goods and profit opportunities at the right pace (not to mention new transportation options_
[Sun 30] [20:38:50] <Burrito_Loco> )*
[Sun 30] [20:39:16] <Burrito_Loco> Man, I'm running out of Samurai Jack, this is sad (if utterly unrelated)
[Sun 30] [20:40:03] <Ellington> how much do we need to get nailed down and how much is tweaking?
[Sun 30] [20:40:25] <Kario> Well, for a demo, we only really need to know how many goods we're using.
[Sun 30] [20:40:45] <Burrito_Loco> I think we should have a strong idea, at least of the timeframes we would like to see.
[Sun 30] [20:40:48] <Burrito_Loco> Sure
[Sun 30] [20:42:02] <Ellington> well, are we using tiers like previous?
[Sun 30] [20:42:09] <Burrito_Loco> In my own personal world we'd primarily deal in perishables and luxury goods. Since heavy shipping can handle bulk goods. Though even some of those might be traded via airship.
[Sun 30] [20:42:21] <Burrito_Loco> Tiers for planes or goods?
[Sun 30] [20:42:56] <Ellington> both?
[Sun 30] [20:43:16] <Burrito_Loco> I feel like we should at least establish a continuum for them on which we can rate and/or place them
[Sun 30] [20:43:33] <Burrito_Loco> Otherwise it gets all mushy
[Sun 30] [20:44:02] <Kario> I agree with goods tiers, at least from a dev perspective.
[Sun 30] [20:45:39] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed
[Sun 30] [20:46:26] <Burrito_Loco> Plus, it stands to reason that a load of carrots ain't worth as much as diamonds
[Sun 30] [20:46:33] <Ellington> BL: I see a small flaw in your bulk shipper argument... supply. Depending on how resource scarce the world is, it might be hard to fill bulk haulers.. in realism terms, anyway
[Sun 30] [20:46:41] <Burrito_Loco> True
[Sun 30] [20:46:53] <Ellington> in the desert, to the thirsty man... water is worth everything, diamonds, nothing
[Sun 30] [20:47:26] <Burrito_Loco> true, there are relative economies, but I have trouble seeing much use for timber a board foot at a time, no?
[Sun 30] [20:47:45] <Ellington> true. SO, how do we want to do it? A trade wheel like skyrates?
[Sun 30] [20:48:19] <Burrito_Loco> wheels are reasonably elegant user interface solutions
[Sun 30] [20:49:13] <Austin_J> I think we could fit up to 16 goods on a wheel without the interface getting too unweidly to the end-user. Although less may be preferable
[Sun 30] [20:49:49] <Kario> 10-16 seems like a reasonable goal.
[Sun 30] [20:51:22] <Ellington> skyrates has 12
[Sun 30] [20:51:35] <Ellington> 5-4-3
[Sun 30] [20:51:36] <Burrito_Loco> I think 300 is a good number
[Sun 30] [20:51:44] <Ellington> to dine in hell
[Sun 30] [20:55:44] <Ellington> 13 goods? With sometime bonuses of discounts, better quality goods, etc?
[Sun 30] [20:56:40] <Kario> I think a soft limit is better while we figure out what sorts of things we want players to deal in.
[Sun 30] [20:56:51] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed
[Sun 30] [20:57:03] <Kario> It'd be better if we had the flexibility to cut down to 12 or go up to 16 than to say "okay, we have one spot to fill in our wheel."
[Sun 30] [20:57:06] <Burrito_Loco> Just need to remember not to go nuts
[Sun 30] [20:57:19] <Ellington> youre the only one who said 300 :P
[Sun 30] [20:57:22] <Burrito_Loco> and decide on 50 items or 3
[Sun 30] [20:57:36] <Ellington> 10-15 is fine
[Sun 30] [20:59:37] <Ellington> Do we want a seperate black market?
[Sun 30] [21:00:06] <Austin_J> T
[Sun 30] [21:00:10] <Burrito_Loco> I like the idea that that depending on the skyland
[Sun 30] [21:00:13] <Austin_J> hat might actually be kinda cool
[Sun 30] [21:00:23] <Burrito_Loco> differing items counts as black market
[Sun 30] [21:02:44] <Ellington> so 10-5ish regular, 5-8ish black market, depending?
[Sun 30] [21:02:59] <Burrito_Loco> Sure?
[Sun 30] [21:04:31] <Kario> I think 'separate black market' counts as an option more than as a set-in-stone thing.
[Sun 30] [21:11:03] <Ellington> anything else we need to decide on trade?
[Sun 30] [21:11:24] <Burrito_Loco> Is ultraviolet/infrared a good idea?
[Sun 30] [21:12:06] <Ellington> hrm. one of the complaints was that it gave very early leads to a select few
[Sun 30] [21:13:01] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, it pays dividends to the micromanager
[Sun 30] [21:13:27] <Ellington> or those with too much time.
[Sun 30] [21:13:28] <Burrito_Loco> And it does make for hilariously unrealistic margins
[Sun 30] [21:13:50] <Ellington> Maybe... infrared/ultra after the first month or so?
[Sun 30] [21:13:57] <Burrito_Loco> (Though, to be fair, margins exceeding 50% are pretty insane in general)
[Sun 30] [21:13:59] <Ellington> or is that too complex?
[Sun 30] [21:14:34] <Burrito_Loco> Maybe they only apply to very high end goods
[Sun 30] [21:15:04] <Burrito_Loco> Bread is a highly inelastic good, for isntance
[Sun 30] [21:15:07] <Burrito_Loco> instance*
[Sun 30] [21:16:41] <Ellington> yeah, that makes more sense. Or more RP oriented infrared... 'tortuga 2 has been under seige.. bread needed, diamonds not so much'
[Sun 30] [21:17:23] <Burrito_Loco> Indeed, a tip system would be fun, would a tip per landing have balance issues?
[Sun 30] [21:17:49] <Burrito_Loco> It also creates a somewhat capricious system, though
[Sun 30] [21:18:17] <Burrito_Loco> Where mere chance can net you a huge windfall. (Not unrealistic, but might anger players)
[Sun 30] [21:18:38] <Kario> That sounds like it's more of a v1.2 thing.
[Sun 30] [21:18:42] <Burrito_Loco> Also
[Sun 30] [21:18:55] <Burrito_Loco> Mayhap the black market element takes care of the problem for us?
[Sun 30] [21:19:01] <Burrito_Loco> Gamblers can play that
[Sun 30] [21:19:21] <Burrito_Loco> twice the payoff for a 50% chance your goods get confiscated
[Sun 30] [21:19:35] <Kario> More basic question.
[Sun 30] [21:19:46] <Kario> Do we like the idea of multiple levels of quality for a given category of trade goods?
[Sun 30] [21:19:48] <Ellington> I do think illegal goods should NOT be safe 100% of the time
[Sun 30] [21:20:08] <Burrito_Loco> I am not a huge fan of tiers within tiers
[Sun 30] [21:20:16] <Ellington> keyo: my opinion: Not really. Maybe some sorta ocasional bonus
[Sun 30] [21:20:34] <Burrito_Loco> It's really effectively the same as adding goods
[Sun 30] [21:20:48] <Ellington> cept more complicated
[Sun 30] [21:20:55] <Austin_J> I agree, Black Market should be for the "high risk high reward" option.
[Sun 30] [21:21:35] <Burrito_Loco> Black market might even work both ways where buying black market is cheaper but has a chance of being fake/spolied/etc
[Sun 30] [21:21:41] <Burrito_Loco> spoiled*
[Sun 30] [21:22:09] <Burrito_Loco> So you can make *serious* money buying black and selling black though your odds of failure become immense
[Sun 30] [21:22:22] <Kario> I like the idea of having a separate market for dubious goods, whether at a cheaper buy price or because they're illegal in certain governments.
[Sun 30] [21:22:30] <Kario> (On that note, what would be illegal in Blue?)
[Sun 30] [21:22:31] <Ellington> but black market isnt open to just everybody... no newbies
[Sun 30] [21:22:48] <Burrito_Loco> You have to earn your stripes
[Sun 30] [21:22:51] <Burrito_Loco> Of course
[Sun 30] [21:23:03] <Burrito_Loco> Depends on the port of call, Kario
[Sun 30] [21:23:13] <Burrito_Loco> also
[Sun 30] [21:23:24] <Burrito_Loco> There's always simple things like pure trade protectionism
[Sun 30] [21:23:59] <Ellington> yeah, smuggling can be pure tarif avoidance
[Sun 30] [21:24:57] <Burrito_Loco> No, I like the idea of high risk/high reward
[Sun 30] [21:25:51] <Burrito_Loco> (causes some odd things to get blacklisted on occasion, but hey, bureaucracies can be a bit odd sometimes)
[Sun 30] [21:26:35] <Ellington> *nod
[Sun 30] [21:28:30] <TommyChong> Merf
[Sun 30] [21:29:01] <Ellington> lo TC
[Sun 30] [21:29:18] <TommyChong> hi
[Sun 30] [21:29:25] <TommyChong> you've been missed
[Sun 30] [21:29:45] <TommyChong> though I have nothing to show for this meeting.
[Sun 30] [21:30:01] <TommyChong> :P
[Sun 30] [21:30:41] <Austin_J> I *almost* have a concept for the Red capital done, but I've been so busy this week with family issues that its not finished.
[Sun 30] [21:32:58] <Kario> I'm still lobbying for the idea of three types of contraband, one banned by each faction.
[Sun 30] [21:33:49] <Ellington> Thats... something to consider, but three permabanned seems harsh
[Sun 30] [21:35:49] <Ellington> Thank you AJ :) belive you me, we understand issues coming up
[Sun 30] [21:37:35] <Austin_J> This one will actually be shaded and stuff! And hopefully look halfway decent in the process.
[Sun 30] [21:43:31] <Kario> Well, again, it's a black market skill, so it's not going to be done by everyone.
[Sun 30] [21:44:18] <Kario> And you'll just, y'know, not trade at places where you know it's banned.
[Sun 30] [21:44:48] <Kario> Having something permabanned by a faction takes the guesswork out of when.
[Sun 30] [21:45:21] <Burrito_Loco> Well yeah, it'd have to be static or updated a midnight on Tuesday or something. Not just whenever the hell
[Sun 30] [21:47:11] <Kario> It would?
[Sun 30] [21:48:00] <Burrito_Loco> Well, no, not from a technical standpoint
[Sun 30] [21:48:09] <Burrito_Loco> but from a not pulling your hair out one...
[Sun 30] [21:48:18] <Austin_J> But from a gameplay standpoint, yeah
[Sun 30] [21:53:31] <Ellington> i think smuggling should be something like: # of crates, + player smuggling skill, - island alertness
[Sun 30] [21:55:05] <Austin_J> I love how we're coming up with a smuggling subsystem :)
[Sun 30] [22:02:01] <Kario> I suppose it'll also depend on how we calculate island control.
[Sun 30] [22:03:21] <Burrito_Loco> Which is part of why I like per island, not per faction, but whatevs
[Sun 30] [22:04:40] <Ellington> yeah... 'oops, flag flipped. trip is ruined' is kinda sucky... not entirely unreasonable, but meh
[Sun 30] [22:07:17] <Austin_J> Alright people, I gotta go and do more family stuff.
[Sun 30] [22:07:36] <Ellington> bye!
[Sun 30] [22:08:13] <Kario> I'd argue that since the whole point of black market trading is high risk, high reward, meant to be used by those who want volatile trading...
[Sun 30] [22:11:53] <Ellington> black market aside, any other stuff to be discussed?
[Sun 30] [22:13:00] <Kario> I think we're mostly making sure that anyone who wants input on capitals and on trade framework is here next week so we can take votes.
